European regulations are banning essential functions on touch screens. They are bringing in a requirement for physical buttons, knobs and switches, as screen cause drivers to take their eyes off the road for too long.
Imagine how enshitified everything would be if the EU wasn’t there as a consumer protection buffer. The US would be fucked especially under our current admin who couldn’t give two shits about consumers.
It's so silly because a lot of these changes just feel like out of touch executives going "we gotta put touch screens in there! That's how you know it's a new expensive car!" And not caring about the application at all. Just put the technology in it, figure out why later.
Touch screens are frequently confused as a luxury item by consumers, and double as a cheapout for manufacturers since real quality gauges and switchgear are more expensive.
Any time you see a car full of screens, it's because the manufacturer was trying to cut costs.
Similar story for me. A buddy of mine got a Tesla model Y and I drove him to the airport in it a couple times. Hated the thing and was very reminded of apple's captive design, basically where they design things intentionally different for the sake of being different so people get use to their way, making other things feel off as a result. Everything on the center screen and having to go through a touch screen menu for windshield wipers was an absolute deal breaker. Got a Kona EV and love it, meanwhile my buddy has trouble driving his wifes car now and she hates all the blindspots in the Tesla and refuses to drive it.
My car has a small touchscreen just for audio and navigation, and it's actually great. Built-in touchscreen displays are a great addition to cars, it's just corporate greed took things too far (shocker).
Yep, my 2017 has a large enough touchscreen to serve audio and run Android Auto. Having to use the touchscreen for Android Auto is bad enough.
I also have a PRNDL (didn't know it was called that but it is now). Later years on my model switched to the push-button transmission which is positively the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Even the junky Ford / Chrysler washing-machine paddle style shifter knobs are more intuitive than that.
I take care of it and hopefully I'll keep my current ride functional for a long time because everything less than about five years old is going to this ridiculous touchscreen control scheme and I won't buy a car that relies on that. OEMs need to do something useful and bring back the manuals.
We struggled when trying to buy a car last year. We wanted a fully-electric second car, since it's our second, mainly used for a short commute or around town. Our kid was going to learn to drive, and we really wanted a "real" car with minimal screens. Boy, that was hard. We test drove at least 12 different models, and did a lot of homework.
Settled on a Volvo XC40 Recharge. Great car! Ironically, it has two screens. It has a big screen, but is not needed at all while driving. And it puts a map in front of you, where your speedometer etc is, so you don't have to look to the side while driving. But all the actual controls you'd use while driving are physical buttons, etc, and no need to look at the big screen at all, and can be set to not be interacted with while moving. Close enough.
Yep. You don't need to know what features will exist in the car, you don't need to know what the buttons do. You just put in the touch screen and then to the software later.
The touch screens are cheaper for manufacturing and have the added benefit of more expensive for the consumer to replace when they break. Plus when essential items are built into the touch screen if it breaks you can't just deal with it to save money, you have to spend all the money. The money that has to go to the OEM for the replacement. Oh also the touch screen has a shorter lifespan than a physical switch/know or gear shifter. It's anti-consumerism all the way down.
you're giving too much credit to random execs. This is 100% Elon being a cheap asshole during the post-pandemic supply chain crisis and going "Why do we need a shifter? It isn't connected to the drive train like in gas cars anyway, so we can just put it on the screen. Bam, $30 saved, I'm such a genius!"
It's cheaper to shove the functions into one muti-purpose single use unit than having multiple dedicated devices. With how advanced computers are, even the cheapest chips can generally handle every base function like heating. No extra equipment required. It also makes it harder for third parties to repair and instead of a $100 repair it's a $1000 repair.
I drive a 2012 Benz and i swear to god this was peak userinterface. Not a single Touchscreen, a decent but big enough screen and every Essential thing on a Button without it being overloaded like an airplane Cockpit. This, with android/car play would make the best thing ever fr
Wait until its all voice activated and gesture activated and something on the radio triggers it. Then again, sitting back and yelling random bullshit go would be fun for like, a day maybe.
Imagine how not shitty everything would be if the EU didn't fuck money out of its citizens on every step it takes.
Issue: Climate change. Solution: Tax your citizens. That's the thinking that goes in Brussels...
Realistically there is just a ton of pressure for OEMs to add features without adding cost. Despite the common narrative that cars are so expensive, most of them are barely going up faster than inflation... But customers demand they get driver assistance, better fuel economy, heated seats, you name it.
So they all want to find other places to get cost out of them. And they decided on buttons because they thought it wouldn't get noticed as much.
If new car buyers were willing to buy simple cars they would build it, but the amount of people that are willing to walk into a dealer and buy a basic car is vanishingly small... And those few buyers just go to Toyota anyway.
To add a bit of context, designing and manufacturing and fitting the buttons isn't even the most expensive part. It's designing and installing and testing all the wiring which costs more. Replacing that hardware and those processes with software is where the big savings are, apparently.
It's not a "European" regulation but more of a regulation from Euro NCAP, an independent crash tester. Cars will only get the full rating by providing physical buttons for the most needed functions.
Things that are large, heavy and move really fast and can be catastrophic if something goes wrong need to have physical levers and controls that the operator can always feel and control in an instant if necessary. Car companies need to stop catering to the lazy for the sake of “convenience”.
Apparently, Britain is brining in a taxed-by-the-mile scheme for electric cars and PHEVs. So for them, driving itself will kinda be a microtransaction.
Makes sense and would be proportional. At least here, fuel taxes go directly to road maintenance, and EVs circumvent that entirely even though they cause marginally more wear and tear on the roads per mile driven than equivalent gas or diesel due to their weight.
There are annual registration surcharges where I live for hybrids and EVs to help compensate for that... But they're flat charges whether you drive it 250, 2500, or 25,000 miles a year, which doesn't make the most sense.
A lot of countries have specific taxes on gasoline & diesel to fund road maintenance. In the US it's 18.4c per gallon of gas, and 24.4c per gallon of diesel. It should be about double that, but it hasn't been raised since 1994.
Obviously electric cars don't pay those taxes, but they still wear down the roads by driving on them. Since EVs tend to be heavier than normal cars, they actually cause more road wear over time. EV drivers should be contributing to the cost of maintaining the roads they drive on, which is where the tax you mentioned would come in.
That's not uncommon. EVs don't pay into gas taxes which usually go toward road maintenance. Sure, I'd rather have less taxes, but there's a reason for them.
Tap your card here. Would you like a receipt? Would you like to round up to save kids in need? Would you like to make a cash withdrawal? Would you like a car wash? Paper or plastic? Have you taken the Lord Jesus Christ into your heart?
I don't know about shifting from P/R/D, but I could see L (or 4H and 4L) being "optional" for users that want to use them and locked off for users that don't. I don't agree with the practice, but I could see some manufacturers *cough* Ford *cough* using software to lock off extra "power" features from owners unless they cough up the cash, arguing that it puts extra strain on the car that could cause warranty claims.
Edit: For example, Ford already does this on the higher trim Mustang Mach E models. I have a '24 GT, and if I open the app and look around I find this "Performance Upgrade" software update for $995! Adds an extra 100lb-ft of torque, lowers 0-60 to 3.3 seconds. Shit you don't even really need. But it's there if you want to pay extra and risk breaking the car.
That would be absolutely insane because you would still need to service the additional transfer case and differential. If a company ever does that I hope we collectively put up a massive fight.
Manufacturers already started doing paid upgrades to unlock features that already exist in the car (seat heating, higher engine power come to mind), imagine if they hear about this idea?
“Your subscription to the Reverse.ai gear experience has lapsed. Please update your billing information from your authorized laptop in order to back up.”
It does, but you rarely use it as the car usually knows which way you want to go and correctly selects forwards or reverse. My gf's one correctly shifts gear when parking up. I've been critical a quite a few things tesla have done but that system works really well. When you do need up use the screen it's no harder than any other method I've encountered in 30 years of driving.
That's interesting. I understand it shifting to park/drive automatically, but how does it automatically shift into reverse? And is parallel parking a pain, or does it just do the whole process automatically?
Car manufacturing peaked just over a decade ago. Modern cars are designed to make you go back into the dealership regularly and trade them in quickly. There’s no better time than now to buy a “modern classic”, a 10+ YO well made luxury vehicle or super sports car. It will appreciate, making the “expensive” maintenance a small fraction of the cost of a new, poorly built vehicle.
I was so lost the first time moving my buddy's tesla into my garage to charge. Took a youtube video and 15 minutes to figure out how to get in and start the car lol.
I did a test drive a while back and personally it’s not that bad, however I do see it alienating quite a big chunk of drivers, so it’s kinda stupid for them
My grandma's Mercedes has a ton of settings over the display, which at least uses a knob you can turn and press for selections instead of a touch screen. My brother and I still had to consult the manual because it is absolutely not apparent that you can also move the knob like a joystick for further options in the menus. took us a few minutes before we could set the GPS to fastest route instead of the backland routes grandma prefers.
I have a G series BMW with the curved display and it's dog shit. In my M2 when I wanted to change air recirculation I pressed the air recirculation button now I click
CLIMATE -> RECIRCULATION -> SELECT FROM THREE CHOICES -> NAVIGATE BACK TO WHERE I WAS
this also dismisses my camera so if I was in reverse I have to reactivate the camera again by pressing the camera button.
The ones on the steering wheel column? Those are not bad on Ux side. Aesthetically, well, it’s personal, but I don’t like them.
The worst overall is the latest Tesla solution for sure (especially considering the already had a very effective configuration). Followed by dedicated buttons in random layouts. And then dedicated buttons in semi-sensical layouts.
(Not judging the personal preference or the look, just the amount of time for the muscle memory learning curve and the time distracted from the other tasks during operation)
The dumbest one I've seen is a rotary shifter on the entertainment console. Who's the dumbass who thought it would be a good idea to put the shifter in the same form factor as the volume knob in about the same place as said volume knob would normally be.
I've been driving an Ioniq 6 for almost two years and I've come around to my little shifter on the steering column. Now when I get in my husband's (ICE) car and have to use the middle shifter it seems so clunky compared to just spinning the little shifter.
Same, I went from a Kona EV to an Ioniq 5 2025 and having to use the dong shifter is much better than touching around in the centre console for a button, I’ve never looked at the shifter since using the car whereas I was always looking down at the buttons for the Kona.
Is it not the buttons on the center console? I don't really like them but I've seen far worse.
However, why the fuck did we ever move away from columns shifters for automatics? They are so clearly the best option anyone's come up with - they take up no space, they have a clear tactile response and it's really intuitive that how you move the shifter corresponds to the display of the gear. Every other option since then has been worse.
Nah, it's reachable all right. But that, and the beefy engine, is the only good thing I can say about this 2025 Mini. The screen and the menu is absolute dogshit.
My mate has the electic one, it's fucking awesome. First time I've ever been jealous of a car and If I didn't need a van it'd be my next car.
Various reasons, love all the design quirks but most importantly it has a MarioKart mode. It makes a woo-hoo kinda noise when you select it then drives as close to N64 MarioKart as I think is physically possible.
That 'shifter' in the electric one is just forward and reverse. Hardly need to touch it and the interior design looks badass to me. Like clean Fallout aesthetic imo. Future retro is my jam.
My problem with that screen is that everything has been moved into the screen, so now something like toggling seat heating or turning on/off rear window defrosting takes like four touches. Four touches for which you need to take your eyes off the road and look at the menu, because there's no tactile feedback anywhere on the giant-ass touchscreen.
Give me something like a BMW center console any day, where I can just glance down, locate the button I need, then find it by touch with my eyes safely on the road ahead.
A little nubbin on the wheel that when clicked in shows say 16 key (settable) functions in a circle on the screen would do it. Like a weapons selection system. Feedback via the button as it detents into each of the 16 slots. Make it sexy button like the beemer dial thing but smaller.
I love ours. It’s a fuckin beast. And the jcw editions are 1/10th of a second faster than new bmws. Fucking rips. Lotta fun to drive. Definitely not a fan of the screen having most of the controls but it practically self drives itself while giving me a massage. if you don’t like minis you will hate it because it’s very niche and not like the near identical models you drive over and over again
To be fair, now that automatic transmissions are electronically controlled there’s no need for a large lever with a mechanical linkage. For safety reasons it should still be made very clear when you’re in park or not, and so on.
Some have a hidden lever under the console or behind a trapdoor on the dash. But yeah a lot of them are under the car like you said. Hella annoying trying to move around disabled cars at my shop nowadays.
I mean, that's still an issue even with a big 'ol stick shifter automatic. No power means no shifting out of park, it's rare that the brake pedal is mechanically unlocking the shifter.
My car has a little bit to pop out to let you unlock the shifter if there's no power. Push-button ones will have that too, it just might be less obvious.
No, it is not possible with the current tech to develop a safety concept with a touch screen replacing the shift lever and achieve the necessary safety integrity (ASIL B). One reason is that the failure rate of the components is too high and they are basically impossible to properly diagnose on board so you will not achieve 100 FIT (>100 failures per 1 billion hours of operation). Another reason is that a touch screen can register phantom touches.
Also, you don't only have to make the selection clearly visible, you also have to check if it is correctly displayed and have safety measures in case it's not. This is why you usually have dedicated LEDs, because you can actually check if there is electrical current and thereby checking that the LED is emitting light. This is not possible with standard touch screens.
I don't know what you mean but if you can still select and deselect P from the screen then I very much doubt that this is enough. This is not about robustness and ensuring operational availability, this is about preventing dangerous situations.
What happens if you select P and a malfunction in the screen deselects P again? Or one of 100s of other scenarios where a wrong drive mode selection can lead to serious harm. I was a bit involved in the technical analysis of the death of Anton Yelchin and a couple of other less known cases, so I know this is serious shit. Back then I would sign safety releases for transmissions and could potentially go to prison if I mess up.
I would have a really hard time to sign a safety release for a touch screen drive mode selection. This is downplaying it - I think it is outright insane. To make a final judgement I would need to see the hazard&risk analysis, the ASIL decomposition (how much safety responsibility is allocated to the footbreak, for example) and so on, though.
The ability to change things mechanically is useful when the car has mechanical issues or won't start.
Also, it bugs me that many of these cars don't have a parking brake. Like... what do you do when you park on a hill? I always engage my parking brake, even when not driving a manual.
Sigh. Every day I see this shit I am happier and happier that I bought a car with a manual.
I have to scroll so far down to find this Mini Cooper mentioned. Ok so i drove a demo about a week ago. And yes, this car was so lame because of missing physical buttons and the usual PRNDL stick.
But actually the engine was surprisingly powerful for car that size, and the handling was also super fun. So yeah, once you got used to the buttons, and silly screen, I could see myself fun driving that car.
My dad has a Lincoln Continental with the PRINDL on the center console by the radio. I sat in that car for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to back up.
All of the modern Mini's can go fuck themselves purely on the basis that someone decided to revive a brand that is named for its small size and slapping the badge on medium and large sized cars.
That's like making a new Jumbo Jet that's the size of a Cessna
Is my wife’s car nice with the screen and fancy shit? Yes. Will I drive my truck into the ground because I love the simplicity of a few buttons and standard radio? Also yes.
My favorite automatic transmission shifter is still putting a little handle behind the right side of the steering wheel that you pull in and go up and down with. Feels great. My Leaf has a little knob thing that is very easy to use by touch but it just doesn't have the kerchunk that I like. The Slate is bringing it back to electric cars, though!
This is a safety issue. One of the primary design drivers for shifters is the ability to quickly and reliably hit it into neutral if you experience a traction issue or engine failure. The ones with a track have a notch above drive so you can slap it. The ones that are straight tracked have a button that prevents it from shifting, except from drive to neutral.
Source: was an automotive safety engineer until Ford laid me off with 1 minute notice through an agency (they can't even fire their own employees)
I've hated this useless circle display ever since they started using them. Still think it's moronic and distracting compared to having an actual dashboard.
I can't imagine taking a car for a test drive, seeing that monstrosity of a centre console, and being like "I still want to purchase this car". That would be an instant deal breaker for me.
Yup. I have driven one, but was stuck in park looking around for a long time before even getting out of the garage. Plus “Park” is a push button next to the R-D switch. Why??? If they wanted just a binary reverse or drive switch it should be a huge gnarly Frankenstein style lever at least. Not mistaken for an air conditioning knob.
Boss' two cars are both stupid like that. A Lyriq (basically a tree "shifter" where the wiper controls should be) and a Terrain (bunch of buttons and switches on the console). Both "company" cars so always hated when I got sent to deliver something in them but at least the Lyriq is a very comfy EV beast, the Terrain just felt like a boat.
The textured fabric dash on this generation of MINIs is another oddity. I asked someone from MINI corporate how you are supposed to clean the dust or anything else off. They couldn't answer my question.
It’s a cooper not a countryman, cooper has a little shelf as a wireless charging pad, this has the standing one where a clip holds the phone against the pad
I drove one of our work trucks recently with the little gear flicker and holy fuck was it annoying. There’s a delay between flicking and the display so I would keep flicking and end up scrolling past reverse into park constantly. Also had a weird feature that sent it back onto park all the time when I did anything it wasn’t expecting. It’s also just awkward and hard to find without taking your eyes off the road because it’s so small.
If you're going to move it, put it on the wheel so people do not need to fiddle and reach in an unnatural way.
I just bought a new car and they got rid of all the AC buttons and stuff so now when I want to control the air, I have to bend forward to reach the damn dash.
I don't drive leaning back, and I'm tall AF. So if I have to move, normal height people definitely have to move and fumble for it.
Idk what happened to mini, 20 years ago they were an enthusiast car brand. And now, idek. My favorite car I’ve owned was a 2005 mini sport but now I wouldn’t even consider a mini
I like that a lot better… i always hated how much space a gear shifter took up. Its objectively been a waste of space since we moved to automatics and micro transistors.
I rented a car a few weeks ago. I forget what it was, but park was an extra button. I would habitually think I was in park when I wasn't and set the car rolling too many times.
I test drove the Palisade with button shifters. I didn't have time to get use to it, but boy did I hate it. Like if you live in a place where you just put your car in drive except maybe to reverse out of your drive way, than I'm sure it's not a big deal.
But it seems like a huge PITA when you have to do a 3 point turn or parallel park ina tight spot, which I have to do all the time.
Also who the fuck thought that big round screen was a good idea?
That circle display may actually be the dumbest thing about this. Sure, it matches the aesthetics of the car, but it's gonna be way more expensive to replace than a standard shaped screen and I bet it does weird shit with carplay and android auto.,
I had a GenZ porter drop me off last year. Even some of the Lincoln SUVs have a button to open the door. I tried to get out and he’s like, oh, yeah, it’s a button. I said “this is stupid, just make a fucking door handle.”
He replied “I know, and put back all the AC and radio knobs and buttons.”
I’m kind of astonished that Mini would make such a huge obnoxious display that blocks a good portion of your view out of the windshield. There is nothing mini about that screen
I miss being enthusiastic about cars. There is nothing to really aspire to right now. I can settle on an older ~2018 model, but not much new looks appealing and/or is affordable at all.
I can get if they want to make it more modern and digital or whatever, but that positioning just seems so inconvenient. I've had two of the hyundai ioniqs. The first gear shifter was in the usual location, but was a pad of buttons for each gear and felt more like operating a mouse (quite liked this one). In my new one, it's actually a knob you turn or push the button in on the end of the wiper lever (not sure I like this one as much, but I can understand it for how this one was designed to keep the center console more open with how spacious this model is)
A toggle switch????? What the actual.... you know what, I can't even say anything anymore, engineering ungenuity just surprises me so often it isn't surprising anymore
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u/CpuJunky 14h ago
Lol. Thank God even the younger generations are like wtf?! Looks like a 2025 Mini Cooper Countryman.
The "shifter" is the little toggle switch below and to the left of the big useless circle display.