r/mildlyinteresting • u/bankmint • 19h ago
Aussie pyrex still uses borosilicate glass and not soda lime
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u/Ireeb 19h ago
So it's only the (original) Pyrex in the US that uses the shitty stuff? Pyrex in Europe (a licensee of the US firm) is also still using borosilicate as far as I know. Why did the US based production switch to soda lime if everyone seems to hate it?
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u/waylandsmith 18h ago
It wasn't entirely due to cost. I haven't seen evidence that the production costs are much less. Borosilicate glass is less mechanically tough, as evidenced by my parents' which is all chipped up. Tempered glass, while not as resistant to heat shock is still fine to use in the oven, but is mechanically tougher and doesn't create dangerous large shards when it does break (it's a type of safety glass, like car side windows). Ironically, I think one of the reasons it has a bad reputation is that it explodes dramatically when it does break, but those pieces are unlikely to cause serious injury.
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u/Air5uru 18h ago
A few years ago, I (as best as I can guess) accidentally bumped a pyrex pan into a burner that had been on a few minutes prior. I don't think it fully rested on the burner, but just a small edge. Anyways, a few minutes later I hear what sounded like a small explosion from my kitchen. I walk in and initially couldn't tell what was wrong, but soon enough I saw hundreds of glass shards all over the kitchen. We found glass for weeks lol. As you said though, none of them were really sharp, which surprised me.
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u/sarbanharble 15h ago
I once took a lasagna out of the oven right before lunch rush, and set the damn Pyrex pan on a stainless steel table that I had JUST wiped down. There were a couple of drops of water still present on the table, and that shit exploded lasagna all over the kitchen. Fun times.
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u/ArtisticDay9016 14h ago
The thought of a lasagna/glass bomb made me chuckle a bit. But that would be terrible.
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u/CohuttaHJ 8h ago
I was so hangry after that happened to me with a batch of special nachos. I ate around the glass.
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u/Ireeb 17h ago
I just wonder why they don't offer both and leave the choice to the customers. If you just need a good glass bowl for the kitchen that you can e.g. keep warm in the oven, soda-lime sounds fine. But for example when you want a measuring cup you can pour boiling water into, borosilicate sounds like the better option.
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u/RedMoustache 17h ago
They probably don’t think it’s worth producing two versions of every item for a difference most consumers wouldn’t understand.
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u/Ireeb 17h ago
Yeah, if people voted with their wallet, that might look different. But most people probably just don't need to use glassware in the oven often enough to bother.
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u/crop028 17h ago
Or just don't use it in such a way that matters. as long as whatever you're baking forms a layer over the whole bottom, it should distribute the heat well enough to not shatter. I'd be worried baking cookies or something, but also wouldn't do that in a glass dish. I use them more for casseroles.
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u/Phantom_Engineer 17h ago
I mean, you can still buy borosilicate glassware. It's just not necessarily sold under the pyrex name. You just have to be an informed buyer.
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u/shatter321 15h ago
Good luck finding a way to effectively make that difference clear to the median consumer when you have two of everything on the shelf.
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u/waylandsmith 17h ago
They're not even the same company. They just both own the trademark.
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u/Ireeb 17h ago
There is just one "real" Pyrex, that is the US based company. The european Pyrex is a licensee, another company that has a license to use the Pyrex name, but that doesn't mean they own the trademark. Of course, I don't know the details of the contract, but Pyrex could probably revoke the license if they wanted to. But they are probably getting paid for the license, so they still make money without having to deal with the European market.
The US based Pyrex also made borosilicate glassware in the past, but at some point, they switched to soda-lime glass, while the european licensee did not.
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u/dinnerthief 14h ago
The real danger is the potential for hot liquids or glass to go flying around not the shards themselves.
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u/ThePr0vider 9h ago
labgrade glass is also borosilicate. and that shit survives a whole bunch of abuse
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u/jojohohanon 17h ago
I thought borosilicate was marketed as icebox-to-Oven. Is that not considered a rapid temperature change?
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u/waylandsmith 17h ago
It is. Borosilicate glass is definitely better at temperature changes, but it comes at the cost of being mechanically more delicate.
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u/LightningGoats 10h ago
But it's not really delicate either. I've had a borosolicate baking dish for probably 15 years. It's seen a lot of use and has no chips or any i4he damage.
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u/rubywpnmaster 16h ago
eh, it's a reputation/cost thing. The brand Pyrex became known to basically mean measuring cups and baking dishes. At this point people will still buy it if it's plastic. Sure there may be a marginal trade off when it comes to drop durability but in a damn baking dish I expect it to not explode when I take it from the oven and put it on a granite countertop.
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u/waylandsmith 16h ago
Besides the rest of it, you'll damage the coating on your granite counter if you put a dish straight from the oven on it!
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u/PatchesMaps 17h ago
The shards thing is a myth. Soda lime pyrex breaks just as dangerously as the borosilicate stuff.
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u/waylandsmith 17h ago
I'm not sure what to say. Soda lime pyrex is definitely tempered, and tempered glass is one of several types of safety glass. As far as I can find evidence of, it's an inherent property of all tempered glass to break in that way. Another commenter to my above comment stated they had their soda lime tempered pyrex explode dramatically. I'd be curious to see evidence to the contrary.
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u/PatchesMaps 16h ago
This is the best video of it that I've found: https://youtu.be/2DKasz4xFC0?si=1NFWDT0uGYNmBWFH
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u/Kalashak 19h ago
A couple reasons. New environmental policies were going to require expensive updates to the furnaces they used to make borosilicate, and because tempered soda glass doesn't break as easily from kinetic shock. They had already started transitioning by the time Corning spun off Pyrex.
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u/raptir1 17h ago
They had already started transitioning by the time Corning spun off Pyrex.
TIL Corningware is not made by Corning but instead by Corelle.
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u/Orodia 10h ago
Corningware and corelle were made by corning up until the late 90s. Corning changed its business structure and divested their consumer products so now those are either seperate companies or brands licensed by different companies other than corning. Corning was always an r and d companies but that's more true now than ever.
The business structure of corning rly demonstrates the russian doll nature of corporate entities.
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u/IWannaLolly 14h ago
It’s not shitty but different. The big issue is that Pyrex was the trade name for Corning’s borosilicate glass. It meant a very specific thing. It’s like if Super Glue suddenly became like Elmer’s glue. Everyone expects superglue to be a specific glue and now it’s very different. It’d be really confusing.
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u/Cetun 17h ago
Wasn't there a difference between Pyrex and PYREX?
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u/Ireeb 17h ago
The US firm uses a lowercase pyrex logo, while the European licensee uses an older style, uppercase PYREX logo. But there was also a time when the soda-lime Pyrex products made in the US had the uppercase PYREX logo before they made the new one. So the uppercase logo is not a guarantee for it being borosilicate glass. But the lowercase logo is basically a guarantee for the soda-lime glass.
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u/coffeebribesaccepted 16h ago
But all the older borosilicate ones from the US use all uppercase PYREX?
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u/BrightnessRen 15h ago
Yes, at some point Corning sold the cookware portion of their PYREX brand. Before that sale, it was all made with borosilicate, even in the US.
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u/maddentim 6h ago
I have lots of pyrex. Never had an issue with any of it. I don't see what the fuss is about
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u/jgilbs 17h ago
Is it ACTUALLY borosilicate though? Weird that it says to avoid sudden temp changes. Thats like the entire reason you would use borosilicate glass.
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u/LB3PTMAN 15h ago
Borosilicate is more resistant to temperature changes. Not immune.
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u/Grim-Sleeper 11h ago
You can take a borosilicate beaker, heat it until almost dry on a Bunsen burner, then dunk it into an ice bath. That's pretty standard procedure in a lab. If it handles this amount of abuse, it's hard to see that a normal residential kitchen could do any worse
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u/jaylw314 11h ago
Beakers are much thinner than typical kitchen glassware, and are less prone to damage from thermal shock, so not a good comparison. Soda lime glassware of comparable thickness would perform pretty close, and they do make lab ware from it
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u/prawnk1ng 17h ago
Can someone explain the difference and why would I want one over the other?
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u/IsNotAnOstrich 17h ago
Borosilicate is better at handling quick temperature changes, like from hot oven to cold counters or to water. They're both probably sufficient for normal peoples' uses.
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u/ramriot 15h ago
Pretty sure you got that the wrong way around, the Original Pyrex was Borosilicate Glass which is pretty well immune to sudden changes in temperature due to its very low ratio of thermal expansion. The more recent stuff pyrex (note the lower case) is mostly tempered Soda Lime Glass & is way more sensitive to sudden temp changes.
If I saw a product with a label like this saying it was Pyrex (but not stamped into the glass the same) with that type of warning I would suspect shenanigans.
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u/AssCrackBandit10 18h ago
Is this why Pyrex from Australia is so fragile? I was so confused on why my containers here break so much easier
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u/unripenedfruit 17h ago
Not really, it's fragile because it's glass at the end of the day. Tempered soda lime which the US Pyrex is using is somewhat more tolerant to impacts and is cheaper to produce.
Borosilicate glass is superior when it comes to thermal resilience and is what is used in laboratory glassware
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u/reichrunner 17h ago
thermal resilience
Specifically thermal shock. Soda lime can handle kitchen temperatures just as well as borosilicate.
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u/K__Geedorah 16h ago
Molino bongs (RIP) used borosilicate glass and they were absolutely my strongest pieces. They handled some big falls where others shattered so easy. Great bongs, sadly closed down about a year ago.
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u/VanHalensing 16h ago
Fragility not related to temperature has more to do with how thick it is than anything else.
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u/Gathorall 12h ago
How thick you can make something is related to temperature though. Soda Lime is inferior regarding heat expansion and making it thick makes very vulnerable to heat as a thick piece is unyielding and easily makes a temperature gradient where the glass breaks itself.
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u/EvilRobotDevil 16h ago
Hmmm I'm going to put all mine in the fridge, then pour boiling water in each. Only the strong shall survive.
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u/lRhanonl 14h ago
Isnt borosilicate better for temperature shocks? Why wouldnt they use it over soda lime?
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u/shawslate 7h ago
All of this, and yet Corning makes a series of cookware called visions that could go from a hot stovetop directly to a freezer, could stand to be directly over a torch melting aluminum in it, and was more or less resistant to chips. At one point they even made a measuring cup.
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u/esseeayen 14h ago
Yay! Glad my measuring cups are from Pyrex while I was in Australia! From memory the borosilicate glass is super clear and the soda lime glass has a green tint, right?
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u/oliilo1 12h ago
There is a difference between PYREX and pyrex. (upper and lower case)
Products with the name 'pyrex' (all lowercase) are made by a company called World Kitchen and are made out of clear tempered high-thermal-expansion soda-lime glass, which has a lower thermal shock resistance, making them susceptible to explosions in the microwave or oven. You can identify them by the lower case logo and the bluish tint in the glass.
Products with the name PYREX (all uppercase) are made of clear, low-thermal-expansion borosilicate glass and are not susceptible to explosions in the microwave or oven. They can be identified by the logo which is in all upper case letters and the glass will be clear, not blue.
https://old.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8xq8ac/ysk_pyrex_and_pyrex_are_not_the_same_thing/
That being said, I own a PYREX, and it may be the worst pouring vessel I own.
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u/sonofteflon 18h ago
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u/h3yw00d 17h ago
This isn't exactly true. It's a bit more complicated as corning was using soda lime in some products well before licensing the Pyrex name.
I gave up and just use corningware. Same freezer to oven ability without the guesswork of if it's real borosilicate or not.
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u/LB3PTMAN 17h ago
Yes this misconception has gotten everywhere. There’s no way to know. Odds are very high any U.S. Pyrex will soda lime glass. Which for most smart users you’ll never have an issue anyway.
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u/aplundell 13h ago
That link seems to be talking specifically about laboratory glassware being currently manufactured. Not random pots you might find in the home goods section.
That's a much more limited claim than the usual urban legend version of the claim. I think it's actually true in that context.
I wonder if pages like this are where the urban legend version got started?
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u/bankmint 18h ago
It's interesting because this one still uses the lowercase pyrex branding
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u/BrightnessRen 18h ago
Yes, because Corning sold the cookware branding to be sold under all lowercase brand name. This is cookware, therefore it is pyrex. This one just happens to be borosilicate, because it’s not the u.s. version.
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u/BrotherEstapol 18h ago
This needs more upvotes. I live in Australia and I've seen both for sale, hell, I went into Coles once and they had both makes on the same shelves!!
It's easy to miss if you don't know about it too "Oh, they must have changed the branding and one is older stock!". There's other tells as well like the colour of the glass, but again, you've got to know that there's a difference in the first place!
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u/VanHalensing 16h ago
Pyrex is a name that is licensed now. So it depends on who has licensed the use of the name.
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u/virtualglassblowing 13h ago
All this is weird to see because as a glass artist, the only kind of Pyrex i can buy is boro. They don't produce soda lime glass AFAIK. In fact, it would be downright negligent to sell cookware made of soda lime. I could see them putting their logos on measuring cups made of soda lime. But any bakeware should not be soda lime glass. There's no way, it would be a huge scandal if you ask me
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u/Vhiet 10h ago
It was a huge scandal when it first happened :).
Article from 2012, when the exploding glassware controversy really became a thing: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120912093823.htm
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u/virtualglassblowing 10h ago
God im appalled, what were they thinking, switching??!?
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u/Vhiet 10h ago
They argued that soda lime is better for physical shock (contextually true) and that tempered glass is ‘good enough’ thermally (extremely dubious).
It is significantly cheaper to manufacture though, because of the high melting point required for glass with boron trioxide flux :).
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u/virtualglassblowing 10h ago
Of course it was greed of course
How are you so knowledgeable on the subject?
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u/commorancy0 16h ago
Some Pyrex in the US uses borosilicate and some uses soda lime. You have to read the packaging. You can’t just assume. You have to read the label of what you’re buying to know.
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19h ago
[deleted]
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u/manlywho 18h ago
That’s debatable, different pros and cons. Technically the soda lime glass is more environmentally friendly, and less prone to shattering via shock
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18h ago
[deleted]
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u/InkyBlacks 18h ago
There’s really no difference mostly other than thermal. Which outside of a lab, isn’t an issue.
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u/ThePr0vider 9h ago
PYREX the glass is not pyrex the company. pyrex the company mostly sells lies in the US. PYREX is sold everywhere else and is borosilicate
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u/WheredMyBrainsGo 6h ago
Omg just look up borosilicate glass cookware. And stop fussing about which parent company, which company what the capitalization is, etc. I got a set from Oxo a number of years back.
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u/No_Size9475 2h ago
Good. Soda Lime is garbage for this use. Virtually every one that shatters is soda lime and not boro.
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u/Bendito999 12h ago
Everyone always told me they changed it in the US as the borosilicate was too good for "Walter White" type purposes, so the government forced Pyrex to downgrade to soda lime because everyone was having too much chemistry fun.
Is that real? Don't know, but I think it is a funny reason.
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u/scottynoble 10h ago
I have a suspicion this is fake. I have a fake Pyrex jug. The temperature changes warning applies more to cheaper soda lime than borosilicate glass. And theres a spelling error ‘ diswasher’ Is it from scAmazon ?
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u/awsum43 18h ago edited 18h ago
Crikey!!
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u/Good_Air_7192 18h ago
At least spell it right....
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u/BrotherEstapol 17h ago
Australian here; that is how you spell it?
Curious what you think the correct spelling is?
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u/saltyboi6704 19h ago
Same mostly in Europe as well